Comments on: Why Isn’t There a lh in (X)HTML? http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/ Adam Darowski is a daddy of two and User Experience Designer for BatchBlue Software. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:29:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Natalie Jost http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/comment-page-1/#comment-86117 Natalie Jost Mon, 05 May 2008 02:03:20 +0000 http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/#comment-86117 That's an interesting question and something I hadn't thought about before. And I was just about to say "would it be non-semantic to make an actual single-column table" but then you sort of made that point in your last comment. :) That’s an interesting question and something I hadn’t thought about before. And I was just about to say “would it be non-semantic to make an actual single-column table” but then you sort of made that point in your last comment. :)

]]> By: Adam Darowski http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/comment-page-1/#comment-85476 Adam Darowski Thu, 01 May 2008 23:51:14 +0000 http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/#comment-85476 Mmm... I guess you could argue that the header is actually a header for ALL of the content in the DIV then and not the LIST on it's own. As Will pointed out the table headers are to describe the individual columns of the table. I'm kind of thinking of a list as a one-column table. Sure that's not a "complex relationship", but it is a relationship, nonetheless. Though at this point I think I'm making my own head hurt. :) Mmm… I guess you could argue that the header is actually a header for ALL of the content in the DIV then and not the LIST on it’s own. As Will pointed out the table headers are to describe the individual columns of the table. I’m kind of thinking of a list as a one-column table. Sure that’s not a “complex relationship”, but it is a relationship, nonetheless.

Though at this point I think I’m making my own head hurt. :)

]]> By: Noah Mittman http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/comment-page-1/#comment-85453 Noah Mittman Thu, 01 May 2008 21:05:16 +0000 http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/#comment-85453 Yeah, as Will pointed out, header tags work this way with following content as it is already, so this is exactly the way to go. In fact, I think this is exactly the reason why DIV and SPAN were added -- for their general grouping concept? Yeah, as Will pointed out, header tags work this way with following content as it is already, so this is exactly the way to go.

In fact, I think this is exactly the reason why DIV and SPAN were added — for their general grouping concept?

]]> By: Adam Darowski http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/comment-page-1/#comment-85427 Adam Darowski Thu, 01 May 2008 18:55:39 +0000 http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/#comment-85427 Good point about the headers to paragraphs correlation. I guess it just bugs me that it is something so explicitly attached to the list (whereas the <code><h2></code> can be interpreted as "this is the header for everything until you see another <code><h2></code>”). Kinda like how you have a <code><label></code> near an <code><input></code>, but you're allowed to say <code><label> for="id-goes-here"...</code> to explicitly associate them in the code. Good point about the headers to paragraphs correlation.

I guess it just bugs me that it is something so explicitly attached to the list (whereas the <h2> can be interpreted as “this is the header for everything until you see another <h2>”). Kinda like how you have a <label> near an <input>, but you’re allowed to say <label> for="id-goes-here"... to explicitly associate them in the code.

]]> By: Will http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/comment-page-1/#comment-85424 Will Thu, 01 May 2008 18:45:13 +0000 http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2008/05/01/why-isnt-there-a-lh-in-xhtml/#comment-85424 A table has to have the heading information inside of the table due to the fact that there are meant to be multiple columns/rows and tying the heading to the content is vitally important. This complex relationship can be further seen when considering the scope attribute for th tags. Since a list has a single "column", you don't need to have the heading be part of the element since there isn't a complex relationship to present. Beyond that, I don't think the semantic nature of an h2 above a list would be lost. This is how headings and paragraphs work, and we don't seem to have problem with that relationship. I think it really just comes down to the fact that tables are so complex that the tags need to be nested for them to work at all. A table has to have the heading information inside of the table due to the fact that there are meant to be multiple columns/rows and tying the heading to the content is vitally important. This complex relationship can be further seen when considering the scope attribute for th tags.

Since a list has a single “column”, you don’t need to have the heading be part of the element since there isn’t a complex relationship to present.

Beyond that, I don’t think the semantic nature of an h2 above a list would be lost. This is how headings and paragraphs work, and we don’t seem to have problem with that relationship.

I think it really just comes down to the fact that tables are so complex that the tags need to be nested for them to work at all.

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